This is part 6 - INTERVIEWS WITH THE GIRLS' PARENTS. See the main article on this disappearance case here. See follow up part 2 about the swimming photo here and part 3 with the diaries here. Part 4 with the latest case updates can be read here. Part 5 highlights what other people think has happened to kris and Lisanne. And here you can read my reviews of some books about this case. I share publicly available information here about this disappearance case, as well as other relevant theories and views. I also wrote about other missing hikers here, and here you can read the findings of Lee Zeltzer in this case.
Dates from April 5th, 2014. (Source). I have added English subtitles to the video. You can view it here:
Something I picked from this interview:
'Kris and Lisanne must be found'
May 3rd 2014. - INTERVIEW "The friends Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon should have returned from a wonderful trip through Panama last Tuesday. But the reunion with their parents at Schiphol did not take place. The families are doing everything they can to find their missing daughters and end the nightmare.
'When Lisanne and Kris return from Panama, she's in for a blast. The whole of Amersfoort will come out to celebrate their homecoming, it will be a warm bath'. A smile appears on the lips of father Hans Kremers when he talks about the moment when he will see his Kris again. 'When the time comes, Kris and Lisanne won't know what hit them'. Diny Froon nudges her husband: 'Peter sometimes says that he is afraid that he will hug Lisanne to death when she returns back home.'
But Lisanne and Kris aren't home. The Amersfoort friends, aged 22 and 21, seem to have disappeared from the face of the earth in Panama, the country where they would learn Spanish together and do volunteer work at a daycare center. They planned their trip down to the last detail. Learned Spanish songs and games to keep the kids entertained. Put together an itinerary. The sporty, somewhat introverted Lisanne and her crazy, spontaneous friend Kris would have a wonderful time.
Black Forest
Father Peter was very proud to be at Schiphol when it was time for Lisanne's departure. He and his wife Diny never traveled further than Germany's Black Forest. 'Make the most of it,' said Diny. 'Have fun,' cried mother Roelie Grit, flanked by Hans. When the four parents had a cup of coffee at the airport, they exchanged phone numbers. But we won't be needing them, they thought. Cheerful messages from Panama follow. They Skype. And then, in early April, in the middle of the night, Diny gets a phone call. She hears how a stranger asks for Lisanne. Diny explains that she is Lisanne's mother. She then understands that her child has not returned to the host family where she is staying with Kris.
Emotions
'I was very shocked, but you immediately try to put it into perspective.' It won't be that bad, they'll show up again, she tells herself. But they need to find Kris' parents' phone number. In the middle of the night they find out, that Lisanne and Kris have already been missing for more than 24 hours. That's why they haven't heard anything lately. 'You explode when you understand that something is wrong,' Hans Kremers says about that moment. "But pretty soon your emotions are blocked." Because a call must be made to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. A report must be filed. It must be ensured that everything is done to find Lisanne and Kris. Roelie and Hans Kremers leave for Panama to help with the search. Roelie: 'We wanted to be there when Kris was found.' From their home in Amersfoort, Diny and Peter Froon help where they can. All four parents assume that the girls got lost during a hike near Boquote, the place where they are currently staying.
Other scenario
But now that the area has been scoured and no trace of the girls has been found, they assume a completely different scenario. A dark scenario, in which their daughters are taken against their will. It doesn't change their task, they say from their couch in Amersfoort. Their daughters múst be found. They cán be found. That's what they hold onto. But every morning they have to deal with that same hammer blow again. The two young women are not there. They find the strength in each other to continue searching, in spite of this, but in particular from thinking about their children. Still, they don't imagine where Lisanne and Kris are right now, or what they're going through. The parents cannot afford to spend energy contemplating horror scenarios. Hans: 'We have to remain strong for the girls, to find them and help them when they get home. That is our motivation, that's why we keep going.'
Moving
They prefer to focus on the Find Kris and Lisanne Foundation. The whole of the Netherlands can help to finance the search, by depositing money. The number of responses is overwhelming. Sometimes small amounts of 1 or 2 euros are donated, because the giver cannot afford to lose any more money. Peter: 'That's so moving.' The messages written with the deposits warm the hearts of the parents, who have so much to bear. "Take courage." "We sympathize." Diny: 'That keeps you going; it is a helping hand.' If someone speaks about their daughters in the past tense, as if they are no longer there, it is very difficult for Roelie. 'We don't want that, because we in fact have the confidence that they are still alive. Those times in the day when I make myself completely free to think about her, I get such a warm feeling. Then I have conversations with Kris, then I feel that we are in contact.' Then Roelie just knows that her daughter is still alive. 'If Kris was no longer out there, it would feel different."
'This criticism comes from a local guide, who helps the police looking for Dutch Lisanne and Kris. And this same afternoon the Panamanian police declared that the searches for the girls will continue until at least Sunday. But that the search operation will not be further expanded. With me in the studio is crime reporter Peter R. de Vries. Well Peter, no new discoveries and the search will continue until Sunday... These girls have been missing for ten days now. What does it tell you that the searches are prolonged until Sunday?'"Well to be honest, that sounds a bit economical and frugal to me. I would expect a statement in the order of; for now we will continue to search, as long as we haven't found a trace of these girls. I know from experience and from other cases, that it is exceptionally difficult to find in these type of surroundings. I know cases where searches continued for weeks and weeks, and nothing was found in the end. Only to find the bodily remains half a year later. And such a case ended fatally."
Presenter: 'And what about this new criticism that the searches should be expanded?'
Peter R. de Vries: "Well I am inclined to agree with that. Two girls have disappeared and there is no trace of them. Everything also points towards them not having disappeared voluntarily or that they went elsewhere. All their belongings are still there [in their room]. Well then you have to use all the available means, including tracking dogs."
Presenter: 'Let's look at all the events that took place so far.' 'April 1st. As far as we know now, Kris and Lisanne started their hike on the Pianista Trail as late as 3 PM. They were seen by witnesses. "Around this time they went up the mountain." That evening, the two girls don't return to their host family. Clothes that would have been necessary for a long hike, turn out to be still in their room. Nothing points towards them having planned to stay away for long. It is not until the next morning that a guide, who was supposed to take them for a guided mountain hike, raises the alarm.
Hans Kremers: "Something has happened that isn't right. And if that means they got lost, or had an accident, or I don't know..." 'In Boquete, Panama, the search operation becomes more extensive. But police have yet to find a trace.'
Search member: "It is very cold at night and we are very worried because the girls did not wear appropriate clothing."
Dutch Ambassador in Panama Wiebe de Boer: "We are very content with the cooperation with the Panamese. They have put a lot of people on this case right from the start."
And then there is the red truck, which Martijn here dismisses as a fantasy. And indeed, the involvement of a red truck is nothing more than a rumour. According to Betzaida Pittí. Not everyone will agree with her however, and we do not know if 'her' red truck (a red Toyota carrying plants, of which one magnificent witness remembered the entire licence plate according to Panamanian police, on April 1st when there was nobody missing yet) is the only red truck that came down there that day. It may have indeed been the plant/flower dispatcher who witnesses saw, but many people had and still have red pick up vehicles there. It could have been a dead end though, surely. And then there is Pedro's detailed witness statement and interaction with Kris and Lisanne, which was considered truthful at the time (Martijn even says it is "100% verified" information). Ingrid Lommers even went to Pedro's hostel and pointed out exactly where Pedro had seen them sitting by the road. It all seemed verified. Until the moment the backpack and camera were found on June 11th of 2014. Then all the witness statements and all this information was overhauled by the data on the digital camera and phones. It is extraordinary how the media and investigators and even the families ran with Pedro's information, right until that point. And then his info was simply discarded. Easy as that. But perhaps there is a time window possible on Monday, between roughly 14:00-16:40, when Kris and Lisanne may in fact háve met Pedro and walked the Pedra de Lino trail behind his hostel. (He would have been one day off then, saying he saw them on Tuesday). For Monday morning their phone data already pins Kris and Lisanne down at the language school and then having lunch somewhere, but that afternoon they may have gone up the trailhead. They would not have taken any photos then, however. Which seems out of character for them.
I tried uploading the video with added English subtitles on my (renewed) youtube channel, to add it to some other videos on this case which I already translated in English with subtitles, but unfortunately this is yet again a case of copyright blocking. Bleh. Although in some countries it may be visible. I know that counties like the United States and Brazil are blocked from viewing it however, so I'm forced yet again to upload the show in parts directly on here. (Like with the Break Free TV item on Lisanne, which you can watch within the blog post here, if you scroll down). It's the only way unfortunately for English speakers to follow what has been said in this case. The videos all work, you just need to press the white 'play' triangle in the middle 2 or 3 times.
Diny Froon: "Please, leave us no longer in uncertainty. And please give us a sign of life."
Presenter: 'Diny and Peter fight against their tears on the press conference with the Panamanian media. They are distraught since their daughter Lisanne vanished without a trace with her friend, about six weeks ago.'
Peter Froon: "Dear Lisanne and Kris. Please know that we will stay here in Panama until you have been found. We will wait as long as it takes, until you are found. And we will not give up! Really, we won't. Have faith in us, we will keep looking for you, for as long as it takes, we will stay here."
[Scarlet: The parents would never give up or leave, until something was found that gave them closure. Hence why I believe that the backpack and bones were planted mid June; to ensure that the parents would finally leave]
Presenter: 'The Panamanian media has come in large numbers. The mysterious disappearance case is still in the news here. In the street everybody knows who we are talking about, when we start about the Dutch girls.'
Local: "It is a worrying situation, because people have disappeared. Even though they are not from Panama, it still touches us that they are missing. We pray to God that they are doing well and that they will be found soon."
Presenter: 'On Wednesday April 2nd the alarm is raised when Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers don't return to their host family in Boquete. A mountain village in the west of Panama. A large forest area is meticulously searched. But to Kris' parents great disappointment, nothing is found.'
Hans Kremers: "But we are convinced that if there would have been a trace of them in these mountains... that these men and women would have found it."
Diny Froon: "You now start to look at everything as through the eyes of Lisanne. And you think: this is really where she has been, and what has she seen here? And of course we have seen the images on TV, but to see it all for yourself here is overwhelming.
Peter Froon: "Of course it is difficult to keep faith. Especially as time goes by. But as long as the opposite hasn't been proven, we keep believing that they will be found. And that is where everybody is working towards, and that keep us going. Even though it is sometimes hard."
Presenter: 'The rain season has started in Panama. There are several theories about what may have happened with the two Dutch women. Did they get lost on the Pianista? A popular hiking trail in the mountains. Did they step in the car of the wrong people? And what happened during the last day? We get in the car with Ingrid Lommers. The two girls followed a language course at her school.
Ingrid Lommer: "This is the most direct route to the Pianista. They wanted to learn Spanish and they really wanted to work with children. They had really good intentions, for themselves and for the local population. And it is so unbelievable that something like this happened to two girls, who came here with such good intentions. Why did this happen to them? Why on this moment and in this place?"
Presenter: 'Ingrid takes us to Casa Pedro. Probably the last place where Kris and Lisanne were seen.'
Ingrid Lommer: "One of the two girls has sat here, the other stood here. And they had the intention to return to Boquete. And they sat here for a little while. The mister from Casa de Pedro has seen them here. And at some point they were gone."
Presenter: 'Do you think that a crime took place?'
Manolu Ruiz: "I hope not. I only hope that they are still alive."
Presenter: 'By now there are said to be new signals about a possible breakthrough in the case. It is not clear what signals.
Diny Froon: "It is more like a rumour that we heard. And we want to check everything. To find out if we can find a trace in these rumours. If they are true or not."**
Presenter: 'Jan Rigter, Diny's brother, has travelled with them to Panama, together with his wife. For years he worked for the Dutch police but he also knows that in countries such as Panama, you need a private detective to really get to the bottom of things.'
Jan Rigter: "First there are the tips that could come in through the offering of a reward. The police doesn't do anything with these tips, so you need someone who will verify them. The private detective can do this. Sometimes you also receive tips from psychics. Which could be correct perhaps. And then you try to link those to the facts that are known. And the police often does not have the time to properly investigate this."
Presenter: 'The reward for the golden tip has by now been increased. And this has to open up the naturally closed-natured Panamanians.
Diny Froon: "But then we need certainty within the next three weeks, about where the girls are and that they return to us alive and healthy."
Diny Froon: "It has to happen here. So we really want this to make it to the national papers here. And the people already talk about it, but the coverage has to get even bigger. Because here is where it has to happen. There must be people here who know something. And this is how we want to encourage people and to convince them to make contact when they know something. To give us tips we can work with."
Peter Froon: "And there are plans from us to constantly have one of our families present here from now on. We will stay present here, until this is solved. We don't want to leave them alone."
La Prensa article from late May, 2014; "Kris, We're going to find you!"
May 31st, 2014
Roelie Kremers, the mother of Kris, one of the two Dutch tourists missing in Boquete since April 2, made a desperate appeal yesterday, 60 days after she last spoke to her. "Kris, don't despair, we are going to find you! We're going to find you!" she said in a broken voice to the media present at the operations camp of the search team, that is trekking the Chirica mountains looking for her daughter. Her husband, Hans Kremers, took the opportunity to ask anyone who has any information on the girls' whereabouts to contact the authorities. "We are not ruling out that they may have been taken to Costa Rica; we are not ruling anything out," said Jerome Van Passel, spokesman for the family. Yesterday, a group of rescuers from the Costa Rican Red Cross joined the search for the Dutch tourists Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon, who were last seen in Boquete on April 2. Sergio Flores, head of logistics of this group, explained that they are eight paramedics specialized in rescue, capable of climbing the intricate landscapes of the mountains of Boquete. "This is the same mountain range that we have on the Costa Rican side. We know this type of mountain. We have the ability to sleep in the forest and stay there for eight days without having to go down," he said. If the tourists are found alive in the mountain, they will probably have problems of hypothermia and dehydration, he said. "In Costa Rica we worked similar cases. Eight months ago we tracked a nurse who got lost on Chiripó, the highest point in the country, located at 3,820 meters above sea level. We managed to rescue her alive five days later. She was two hours away from the trail marked as safe. She presented hypothermia and dehydration", he added.
This way, the Costa Rican search team joins the rescue groups that since last Monday have been on the trail of Kris and Lisanne. In addition to a Dutch group of volunteers with dogs, national authorities are also helping in Boquete with the search. These are officials from the National Police, the Panamanian Red Cross, firefighters, the National Civil Protection System (Sinaproc), the Judicial Investigation Directorate and the Attorney General's Office. Yesterday, various sectors of Boquete were inspected, including trails, without the search team finding any significant signs. The tracking work with the dogs will continue until next week. Hours before the arrival of the Costa Ricans, Hans Kremers, Kris' father, confirmed that in the Municipal Personería of Boquete they were given his daughter's belongings. "They already gave us her passport, her clothes and all her belongings", he explained from the rescue operations center located in Palo Alto de Boquete. Meanwhile, sources from the Public Prosecutor's Office told La Prensa that the cell phones of the two missing Dutch women have not yet been found. "They did not buy phone chips [SIM cards] in Panama to call with any of the local telephone companies. They only used their phones to connect to the internet via Wi-Fi. The last connection we have on file was made on Monday, March 31 from the José Domingo Médica Park in Boquete," he added, This park is in the center of the town of Boquete. According to the testimony of Kris' parents, the last contact with their daughter was made on Monday, March 31. "She told me that they were fine, but that they were a little disappointed because the Spanish school (Spanish By The River) had informed them that they did not get the promised job," said Roelie Kremers, mother of this fine arts graduate.
Both girls had been in Panama since mid-March to learn Spanish and work in a day care center as volunteers. Regarding the investigation, the first superior prosecutor of Chiriqui, Betzaida Pittí, expressed that during this week they will continue reviewing the videos of the commercial establishments of Boquete. Sources of the Judicial Investigation Directorate (DIJ) indicated that it is not discarded that in the next weeks there will be raids to farms and houses in Boquete, "We cannot search everywhere, but we can search in those places that are suspicious because of the profile of the owners", she added. Meanwhile, this newspaper contacted Ingrid Lommers yesterday through Facebook, who was in charge of the Spanish By The River school and who was offered an interview to get her version of the facts. At the same time, a member of the team of rescuers participating in the search commented that the "strangest" thing about this case is that they have not found any trace in the mountain so far. "When you get lost, you usually leave signs in your path. You tie a piece of shirt to a tree or look for a river to drink water. In the searches we have made, we have not found any of this," said the official. [source]
September 23rd 2014.
Check out the video itself here.
Half a year after their daughter Kris Kremers disappeared in Panama, her parents are trying to rebuild their lives. This is difficult, because they still have many questions. This afternoon, Roelie Grit may start removing the loose branches from the garden. She tells it with a half smile, as if to mock the banality of it. Her partner Hans Kremers goes to volleyball later. Roelie: "We are working to build the outer edges of our lives back up again, or so I call it, by doing normal things again." Over half a year ago, their daughter Kris Kremers (21) went with her friend Lisanne Froon (22) on a trip to Panama. On April 2, they did not return to their guest house in the village of Boquete. In late June this newspaper spoke for the first time with the Kremers family - the family Froon was there also at the time, but they are nowadays reluctant to interact with the media. The conversation involved the search efforts to find the girls, and about having to live between hope and fear. The parents tried not to think in doomsday scenarios. Roelie Grit had a mantra to expel creepy scenes from her mind. "She's alive and she will be found," she would say over and over again to herself. But a few hours after that interview in June, it was announced that "human remains" of the girls were found by the river in the area where they would go hiking. "Hope is gone ..." wrote Nikki van Passel, spokesperson for the Kremers family and closely involved in the case, in a late night text message. Now the parents of Kris sit at the same sturdy wooden table in their living room. Next to still stands the small table with candles and pictures, which Roelie Kremers had decorated for Kris after her disappearance. When they called it 'a table of hope'. Since it has become clear that their daughter is no longer alive, it has a different name: 'Kris' little place'. How do you live on without hope? In other words, how are the parents doing now? Hans: "Sometimes the grief is really affecting you, but other times those moments are limited. We also have two sons aged 18 and 24. If Kris had been our only child, I suspect we would have sunk far deeper into our grief." Hans and Roelie do not appear defeated. Occasionally the conversation falters briefly because they have to swallow hard. They can express very eloquently how they feel. Roelie: "We try to find a balance. On the inside it is a big ravage; inside we need to give the loss a place. But we also want to remain combative. "
Jeroen Pauw: "I have never been there [in Panama]. Have you ever been there?
Peter R. de Vries: "No."
Jeroen Pauw: "You have."
Martijn Froon: "Yes".
Jeroen Pauw: "Everybody says: you almost cannot get lost there."
Martijn Froon: "Well yeh that is what we have experienced ourselves also. On the north side.. no on the south side on the trail facing the village [of Boquete] it is nearly impossible. It is one straight forward path. Only going up. It is a difficult hike because you have to climb quite a few meters. And when you leave the trail you can go quite a few meters down also, there are steep slopes where a lot of things could happen. Like I said; on the south side the trail is not that difficult but once you reach the summit and go over to the north side, then the trail changes completely."
Jeroen Pauw: "And what do you think is the most likely thing that has happened then?"
Martijn Froon: "Well, what our conclusion is... here you see a photo of the other side of the trail. It is one big blubbering mudfest. The walls are reaching up. I really struggled to walk there [Scarlet; but when Kris and Lisanne walked there the conditions were dry...] As you can see here, I sometimes couldn't even pass through upright and had to bend. They walked this trail for almost an hour. So then you reach the spot where the last photo was taken around 2 PM, 2.30 PM. [Scarlet: camera data says they were there at 2 PM and it was less than an hour's walk] And then you know that you need to walk back for at least 4 more hours, the same route, until you are back in Boquete." [I'm sorry, I don't understand his calculations.. It took the girls 2 hours to reach the summit and less than 1 hour to reach the stream of photo 508.. Going back would have taken them significantly less time than those 3 hours, as they would be going downhill for the most part.]
Martijn Froon: "And then they would have returned past this same trail, and I know my sister a little bit and she would not have liked that. So then they would have reached the point at 2:30 PM where they wondered; what should we do? Either we turn around and walk back. Knowing for sure that it is 4 more hours of walking [Scarlet; wrong calculations imo]. Or we keep walking, in the hope of reaching something.
Peter R. de Vries: "Well I don't think you can say... that is in my opinion the most basic error they have made..
Jeroen Pauw: "Who are 'they'?"
Peter R. de Vries: "Well, the media. The people who have spoken out about this. Saying that you cannot get lost there. But that is something, then you are arguing from a certain logic, which is especially in these type of circumstances not applicable. I have climbed mountains myself, and so I know a little bit about what it does to you when you have a shortage of water or food. How quickly you weaken then. And also what it does to your mental state when you sprain an ankle, for instance. And when you think: how can I go down as soon as possible. It is easy to say then that the route is straight forward and that you cannot get lost on it. But the moment you want to go down as soon as possible and when a certain panic washes over you, you will start looking for shortcuts. And then you go off the beaten track and off-trail. And so you can think of all sorts of scenarios which in my opinion have not been taken enough into account." [Scarlet: Peter has never been in Boquete, he never walked the trail for himself and he has no idea what options there really are to look for a shortcut. Everybody has spoken of and shown footage of one clearly defined trail. With no side trails to even choose from. Is he seriously considering that Kris and Lisanne would weed through foliage and down slopes, with a potential sprained ankle, to find a shortcut? In that completely unknown and new place in Panama? I find this very, very far-fetched and hypothetical. These two men are basically dissing the Kremers' findings.]
Jeroen Pauw: "And that is also the scenario which you both..."
Martijn Froon: "That is one of the conclusions which we have come to. At 4:20 PM that same afternoon, the first emergency call attempt was made [Scarlet: Official info says this was at 4:39 PM] There is an hour and a half in between. I find it plausible that something happened in the meantime. Uhm, maybe that one of the girls fell, or that something happened. Or that they at least knew that they wouldn't make it back out of the forest before sunset. And if we don't do something now, we will have to spend the night here."
Jeroen Pauw: "Yes. That is what they have most likely also done, in your story. They have made it through the night. They weren't really dressed for that, I don't believe they brought a lot of things with them."
Martijn Froon: "A tank top and shorts. No food and one small water bottle*." [*Kris is pictured with two water bottles in photo #491]
Jeroen Pauw: "No food, little water. No protective clothing. The day after it started to rain heavily in the area, I believe."
Martijn Froon: "Yes."
Jeroen Pauw: "That will leave you a little more cold also."
Martijn Froon: "Well.. not a little bit. You are getting soaking wet and then you won't be able to get warm again."
Peter R. de Vries: "You weaken very rapidly."
Jeroen Pauw: "So within this story as you are telling it now... backed by Peter.. what do you think happened on day 2, 3, or 4 or 5?"
Martijn Froon: "Well that... we will never know that. That will always remain an open question. You know, did one of those girls fall in a ravine? Did they get into an argument about what they would do. Did they both go their separate way? You won't get answers to those questions."
Jeroen Pauw: "There are a few things.. You wonder; did they get lost or not? Let's assume, based on your story and from what Peter says, that they did, presumably. Because something happened. A sprained ankle perhaps, maybe we can find a shortcut. Maybe if we turn left here we can get down just a bit faster. At some point you are lost. Those phones have been logged into, right? Several times. How often were emergency services called?"
Martijn Froon: "About 15 or 20 times, off the top of my head."
Jeroen Pauw: "Were text messages or other messages found in these phones, which gave any indication what happened?"
Martijn Froon: "No. No, no form of what sort of message at all. Those phone were switched on. The first six days the phone was systematically switched on and off about three times a day. And that suggests that they were clever about the state of the battery. It was an iPhone and everybody knows how quickly the battery is dead from those type of devices. [Scarlet; only this iPhone from Kris was powered on for 11 days, with a start on day 1 of only 50% battery..] Turning the phone on, making a call, switching the phone off again. Waiting for a better moment."
Jeroen Pauw: "Well.. you know yourself that you sometimes start typing a text message, and then it would have been still in the phone, without having been sent.."
Peter R. de Vries: "Well, when you see that there is no cell reception, you do not even start typing a text message, I think. But the fact that those phones were logged in over a longer period of time, and those emergency numbers were called is for me an indication that the chance of them being a victim of a crime is smaller. Because it is hard to imagine that if these two girls had been in the power of someone else, who had kidnapped them or who held them captive, that they had been able to use their phones still for several days."
Jeroen Pauw: "But then in the end, it is also the case that these phones were not entered correctly anymore. Or that no more login codes were entered correctly. This also led to thoughts with others that perhaps another person tried to work with these phones."
Martijn Froon: "Yeh.. well everybody who has a mobile phone and a screen lock; I ask you, how often does a login go wrong every day? That you accidentally press in the wrong number combination, or something. And the iPhone required both a screen lock and a PIN code. The first days they were entered both correctly, but later... And like Peter says: when you haven't eaten for six days..."
Peter R. de Vries: "You become disoriented."
Martijn Froon: "You no longer know what you are doing. [Scarlet: Except for 90-something sharp and focused night photos, of course, on day 8] And then you literally and figuratively are tripping'. And then I can understand completely that you are no longer capable of entering the right PIN code
Translated by me in English.
"Five years ago the students Kris Kremers (21) and Lisanne Froon (22) from Amersfoort disappeared in Panama during a walk in the jungle. A month and a half later only a handful of bones were found from them. Until today there are doubts about what exactly happened. "Back then só many mistakes have been made during the investigation", says father Hans Kremers. There is not a moment that Hans Kremers and his partner Roelie Grift don't think about their daughter Kris. At the age of 21 she disappeared together with her friend Lisanne Froon in Panama. "It is now five years since, but it feels like yesterday", says father Hans. "Kris is in our hearts. Every day again we think about her. The grief will never stop." Contact with the Froon family has stopped years ago already. For a long time the two families were united, until deep underlying tensions arose, according to Hans. Tensions about the investigation into the mysterious disappearance, about the later findings of remains of their daughters and the way in which they communicated at the time with the media. "Last year we visited Panama, in memory of our daughter. We followed the same route that the girls had taken. It was very emotional to visit the exact same spots where Kris spent the last hours of her life." The Kremers family has decided not to organize a special memorial service on June 9th, the date when their daughter's remains were found, five years ago. "We don't need that." It is almost unimaginable for him nowadays that photos of Kris and Lisanne appeared nearly daily in newspapers, TV-specials and on the news back in 2014. Day in day out their mysterious disappearance and the following search efforts were reported on.
Kris and Lisanne disappeared on April 1st during a work-holiday in Panama. They stayed there to do volunteer work and to follow a Spanish language course. When they didn't return to their host family in the evening from a walk in the area of Boquete, the hostess was initially not worried about this. She thought that the two were most likely enjoying themselves in the nightlife of Boquete. But when Kris and Lisanne hadn't returned either the next day and missed an appointment with a local tour guide the next morning, they alarmed the police. Shortly after, the families of the two students travelled to Panama to help the local authorities with the search. Soon it became clear that Kris and Lisanne had walked the Il Pianista trail that morning of April 1st, a trail that passes the jungle and that lasts about three hours. The route is known to be safe, but tourists have also known to have gotten lost on it. That's why it is recommended to never walk it without a guide. For the parents a nightmare started, that would last for many weeks. A month and a half later, on June 11th, a backpack was found, containing possessions of the two young women, including a photo camera and telephone. Five days later the Panamanian guide F., who had volunteered to help searching, found several bone remnants of the women. The two appeared to have died under mysterious circumstances during their walk. Only a couple of bones were found in the nature area. The finding spot was at least eight walking hours away from the spot where Kris and Lisanne were last seen on April 1st 2014. The discovery of these bones led to many speculations at the time. Some spoke of an accident, others of kidnapping and a robbery-homicide. The Panamanian guide who found the bones on June 19th that year, explained at the time that the bones were found in the vicinity of a dangerous cable bridge over a river. Of Kris only a part of a pelvis and a rib bone was ever found. Btw: The jeans shorts were found on an estimated 14 hours of walking distance (based on a fast paced local) from the backpack, so a fair distance away. And the bone remnants were found several walking hours away again as well, further up north.
Aired on youtube on January 7th 2015. I translated a Panamanian report on the case from Spanish into English for you and added subtitles to the video. I do not speak Spanish, but there is a way to reliably convert the audio into text, and translate it like that. Apologies if small errors slipped in. I add the translated video here and will write out the translation text below also.
Presenter: "It was between March 31 and April 1, when Boquete, little by little, learned about the news. Two young Dutch tourists, Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers, had been declared missing two days before we went up the tourist trail of El Pianista. Everything pointed to the fact that they were lost in a closed forest in the Pila International Park, thousands of hectares between the rescuers and the European ones by land and air. Sinaprocs' own volunteers in the area tried to cover all the possibilities. It was a mobilization that was never before seen in Boquete's history, but so far the mountain has swallowed some clues about the girls' disappearance. Boquete is known worldwide for its climate, its wooded and mountainous areas, but above all for its people and safety. Coming here is for many foreigners a beautiful achievement in their lives. In fact, some 60,000 people a year come to Boquete's national parks, but especially foreigners. Some of these last foreign adventurers, sometimes in that quest for adventure, break the rules and may face danger." Local: "Including women, single ladies, and girls aged 22 to 26".
Presenter: "Lisanne and Kris did not go straight to Boquete, but first spent time in Bocas del Toro, where they made all kinds of friendships in their adventurous quest. There was a desire to volunteer, helping Indigenous children in the area. Tobias: "Where they disappeared, they didn't have a guide, no." Other guy: "They didn't have a guide?" Tobias: "But neither did they have plans to - mumble mumble - go (there?) with a guide." (I struggled with the translation of these three sentences, but KaT came to the rescue, thank you so much! Scarlet). Tobias is a Dutchman who runs the Spanish school where the two young women interacted. He says that many like them want to venture out alone, without guides. "The reason: it costs a lot. Of course."
Presenter: "It is six o'clock in the morning and I am here in Boquete, right on the path that leads to the Pianista Trail. A mountainous area. Here's where the women were last seen, at least by the taxi driver. I go with a guide, Mr. Ezequiel Miranda, who has years of experience in the area. He is a guide and also a conservationist. And with him we are going up the same route that the young women apparently took before they disappeared from the sight of everyone in the area. But instead of the morning, these two young women of 22 and 21 years of age walked the trail in the afternoon. A five-hour round trip was waiting for them. Most likely they would be caught in the evening.
Dozens of tourists come up here every day, so it didn't attract much attention from Mrs Oliva, who lives nearby. I only saw them for a few seconds. She adds that they were quiet. "Then I was struck by the short pants they wore and the amount of bare legs. They will get sunburn that way without skin protection, I thought. And I thought about how they were going to get scratches on their legs once they got up." Presenter: "In total, about four residents, plus the taxi driver who drove them to the spot, saw the women for the last time. From here onwards, rumours arise. One of them is that they might have been intercepted by strangers."
Resident: "They are not here. They have them. They were moved elsewhere. Let's hope so, right? God willing. But this case is so difficult. If they had been on the mountain, we would have found them by now". Presenter: "There are at least two testimonies, among these that of the taxi driver, who points out that some time after the climb, these girls saw an off-road vehicle arrive in the area. The road narrows and we haven't even climbed the mountain range yet and there is no sign of any kind. There is a lack of warning or attention, or at least something to guide the person who is climbing, whether he is a national or a foreigner. Where are you? How many kilometres have you travelled? How much farther do you have to go? And the most important thing: where do you have to go? For several days, the possibility that the young women met foul play was gaining strength in the face of the fruitless searches in the forest area. However, getting lost here included the possibility of falling up to 50 metres or taking routes that could take you to the province of Bocas del Toro in the area. Mr. Ezequiel Miranda: "You will always go down, down and there. And there are several similar very steep rock faces and cliffs, many similar or much, much larger than this one." Our guide is sure that walking at night is almost fatal, but a third clue points to possible assault on these tourists. And that would not be the first time.
In fact, they assure me that a few months ago a married couple was attacked when they were making this same journey. Local living on the trail: "Know that the police have assaulted foreigners. Yes, yes". How did they assault them? Explain to me. "Well, they say hooded".
Another local: "The situation is emerging that Indigenous people who live in the area observe the tourists when they arrive. When they leave the area they assault them, often with a knife and they take away everything of value these tourists carry on them."
Presenter: "[Two hours into the climb] There is a fork here, there are two different points, two different trails, and I myself at least brought my guide along here and he can inform me of where I am supposed to be going. But these young people who unfortunately went up without a guide, could easily get lost."
[This seems the voice over from guide F. but it is more likely Ezequiel Miranda] "You can walk in all sorts of directions, believing you are able to walk in there. The paths take you to the central mountain range, which is the highest point on this trail. And when you get there, if you lose track because you don't have the experience of walking in the mountains, you can walk towards Bocas del Toro thinking that you are going to Boquete."
Woman talking over the radio: "Law enforcement officials are requesting that if you have more knowledge of what happened during the past month to share it, because there is little concrete data."
Presenter: "Because there is little concrete data, the Complex Case Analysis Unit of the Public Prosecutor's Office intervened. Many people fear that the disappearance of these two young women goes far beyond them getting lost deep in the forests. The families of each of the young women expressed their gratitude for Panama's support during a press conference, while increasing the reward from 30,000 to 40,000 dollars.
Representative of the girls' families: "Maybe there are some new news signs, of which we do not know if they are positive or negative. We don't know what." Presenter: "There are reports based on the arguments issued by different sources. It reflects the four main possibilities of what could have happened to these girls. An attack by attackers in the forest area, who have left the country without warning now or who disappeared in the thousands of hectares of forest. [In the background you can read: *Abduction in the wooded area; *Attacked by assailants; *Departure without notice from the country; *Lost in the forest.]
A local: "People comment that it is extremely rare that these type of girls have disappeared in this way, without leaving any trace. If they did get lost, we would have found at least some traces. For instance, some piece of clothing on a fence they passed can sometimes be found."
I have noticed that since their disappearance, the Boquete forces have been rethinking the issue of security, even though Boquetes criminal level is one of the lowest in Central America. They know that they cannot turn their backs on the current reality. Interestingly, when a young foreign woman is asked what level of security she uses when she arrives in Boquete, this is her answer: "Nothing". "Nothing?" "No".
The family of Lisanne and Kris clings to any data or rumour, like never before. They have faith that everything will end soon. Mother Lisanne: "We call for people to please, please share it if you know something."
Sometimes a mother's distress does not require any translation. Only Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremer know. It is the faith of despair. Two families who saw how that which began as their daughters' adventure, turned into their worst nightmares.
On camera: Hiceki Santamaria.
Reporter for Telemetro Reporta: Ángel Sierra Ayarza
In this video reportage, there are some subtle magical realism terms added here and there, which could have come from writers like Isabel Allende or Gabriel Garcia Marquez perhaps, about the mountain and the jungle being very beautiful but also luring you in, far away from civilization. As if these forces of nature have a will of their own and are containing dark energy. Anyway, that's more the personal feeling I got from watching and translating this video. It is more material of interest in this case. Even though I believe that just because this terrain and these circumstances allow for tourists to get lost (and they do at times), this does not mean that they can stay lost there and stay hidden with half the province out looking for them. This presenter was one day late and already Sinaproc were out to pick them up. With the help of a GPS device they gave the presenter and the tour guide before embarking on their hike, but still. The search area to cover wasn't massive (when you compare it to an area like the Darién Gap). There is also a lot of weight given to the findings of some of the clothing of Kris along this route and the bag and shoes and foot. But findings those remnants along this route deep into nature also does not mean that the girls were out there alone, or even that they themselves left them there at all. Neither was it explained by the presenter or the guide how both or even one of the girls could have stayed alive for at least 11 days, if the location of their demise was a day's walk up north, to the 2nd river crossing. The iPhone from Kris was still used by day 11. So what did they do in the 10 days in between? This river crossing was searched at the time and is passed daily, yet nobody found them here. Anyway, here we go:
Presenter: "Because doubt still persists about which route the missing Dutch women took in Boquete, Jaime Saldaña went into the mountain that divides Chiriquí from Bocas del Toro to try and find out what could have happened to these young women."
Betzaida Pitti: "One of the findings belongs to the young women".
Presenter: "It's six o'clock in the morning and we're starting to climb the Pianista trail at the break of dawn. And here is Laureano, who apart from living in the sector is also going to serve as a guide. We are carrying the provisions and also a GPS apparatus that SINAPROC provided us with. Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers entered this trail at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. [Scarlet; this was apparently still assumed back in early August 2014]. According to witnesses, it is a wooded, forested area with a cool atmosphere that makes you fall in love with your surroundings. After 20 minutes walking, there are already different trails. Are we on the right one? Where are they leading to?"
Laureano: "The path of the Pianist (Pianista Trail) is heading towards the mountain range".
Presenter: "So whoever follows this route has to take this way?"
Laureano: "To the right-hand then another path, where they have to pass a fork in the road" [? I don't understand what is said then, something about the mountain payback according to the translation device]
Presenter: "And if someone doesn't know where to go and takes this wrong route here?"
Laureano: "They may be lost at once."Presenter: "You don't have to walk far to find the first stream. You cross about five such creeks before and after the summit of the mountain range. Some even have a little current and others dangerous ones. At this one we found a shirt and underwear in the nearby bushes. The guide says that they could have been from Indigenous people who pass through the place often. Two hours later we reached the mountain range. This is the only place where there is a mobile phone signal. Then there is the viewpoint, the Mirador. After a little more than two hours of travelling, we arrive at this point which divides the province of Chiriqui with the province of Bocas del Toro. This is the main point of the route; the point where any tourist wants to arrive at to observe the two oceans in both distances, the Atlantic and the Pacific. The fog does not allow to see this now, but if a tourist arrives it is almost obligatory to get to this point and from here to return to the Boquete sector. The experts say that the foreigners decided to follow the trail from here. That whole walk is downhill and when the girls went here, it was already getting dark along the way. [Scarlet: they still believed the old timeline then].
Ángel: "Yes, I found the clothes."
Presenter: "On the third day we returned, it was dark and we hadn't reached the halfway point. We had to take refuge in a small-scale ranch. It is now already the third day of the trip and the intention was to leave for Boquete, but the first cramps and pains in the legs have started. This didn't allow it [to move on]. The rain didn't either. But we were able to take refuge in this ranch, something that would be difficult for a person who does not know this, because this ranch is off the path or the trail that goes from the planet to the Alto Culebra sector, where we were located. In the morning we came across a team of SINAPROC. We had by now built up a delay of a whole day from what we had planned. At this point we had no more provisions."
**On May 29th of 2014, the parents of Kris had already said to local newspaper La Prensa: "My daughter was kidnapped! I don't know by who, but I'm sure she was kidnapped." Kris' parents have repeated this statement in multiple interviews which I cover here in this blog series.
“Here we again feel that they are giving us the runaround and that we're being kept in suspense, while we are simply trying to find out what happened to our daughter and how she died. There seems to be little empathy among people in the Netherlands who are involved in this research and who apparently cannot understand themselves that it goes beyond the bounds of decency to treat families in this way. Since the beginning of April we have now been trying to retrieve telephone data and we have made this clear time and time again to the various parties involved. We simply do not understand that such a report then disappeared first in a drawer somewhere, until we send out a press release with a plea; and then its release is again delayed by a Dutch embassy, while the authorities in Panama are just as desperate for it as the family. We also understand from Ms Pitti that there may also be alternative and faster ways to get such a report on her desk if they choose so. We hope that the Dutch authorities will soon come to their senses and that not only the Panamanian authorities may receive the report electronically today, but that we, as a family in the Netherlands, will also be added to the mailing list. So that we can have the information in our hands today, after chasing after it for more than four and a half months now. When they state in the Netherlands that it is only a case of the girls simply having gotten lost, and they no longer want to investigate the cause, then there is also no longer any reason or research interest for not disclosing this report immediately to those close to the girls. We expect that after this press release, the authorities concerned will finally understand that the matter is still very urgent for the family, not least because the weather is getting worse by the day in Panama where the rainy season will now soon erupt in its full glory, significantly diminishing the chances of finding Kris' remains. And with that also the chances of finding answers, which may wash away with the rising water. In recent weeks we've been told more and more by authorities; "You cannot accept the death of your daughter and are holding on to straws against your better judgement." It's not so that we as a family cannot accept that Kris is gone. But we cannot accept that not everything is done to find out how she died and why she died. If only to hopefully save this fate for other families. That's why we now want to get to the bottom of what went wrong, as much as this is possible. This isn't the first time this has happened to a family in Boquete and if we don't act now, it may neither be the last. You wouldn't wish this on your worst enemy! Searching for answers for Kris is the last thing we can do now in her name and we will not fail to do so, even if no one else can see the importance of that.”
https://www.em.com.br/app/noticia/gerais/2022/10/17/interna_gerais,1408418/mineira-que-desapareceu-nos-eua-surge-em-site-de-prostituicao.shtml
ReplyDeleteOlha querida.
Eu depois de acompanhar testemunhos de existe atrizes do mundo porno.
Chego a conclusão que existe o trafico de mulheres para o porn.
Porque eu vejo mulheres maduras LINDISSIMAS no portão?
Que obviamente pelo bio tipo deveriam estar muito bem casadas?
Ou um bom emprego?
Como foram parar na industria pornográfica?
Acredito que são rapitadas você entende?
Uma bela mulher desde nova vai ter pretendentes e oportunidades.
Não tem sentido elas irem pra industria porn.
Onde são forçadas a fazer as piores coisas.
A usarem drogas e serem ameaçadas.
Onde uma mulher fica numa cena, cercada por 8 a 10 homens.
Então acho que o governo do panamá entregou as 2 holandesas para a elite pornô.
Abraço.
I am fairly confident, given all the warnings they had beforehand to stay on the trail, that they left the trail and stumbled across a "Nueva Luz de Dios" (or similar, non-Spanish speaking indigenous) ceremonial religious site and "desecrated it" in entering it or touching things in it. I think they were being watched and were captured and sacrificed by that religion/cult. Later, their property and bones were placed back out along the trail. The Panama government is very aware of the human sacrificing issue and the cult and tends to cover up their activities.
ReplyDelete